I would think that most letterboxers use the small rubbermaid or
tupperware containers. Aren't most geocaches larger boxes?? (I have
only seen 2 geocaches and both were huge containers filled with junk)
Why would they think that such a small box is a geocache? And
another point--Do these geocachers know how to read?? If you take a
moment and read the logbook, you would figure out that it is a
letterbox and not a geocache!!

Amanda from Seattle(who is anti-geocache)

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "waldenrun" wrote:
> Boxers,
> After a nice ski in to Mount Pisgah Fledglings, with light snow
> falling, I was aghast to discover the stamp had been removed. Per
my
> previous posting, this is the box that is quite close to a geocache
> and has been discovered by a number of those folks.
>
> When planting new boxes, it may be prudent to use geocache.com
to
> search for caches near, or at, your planned location. The
geocachers
> expect to take something away from their visit (besides a stamp
> image) and that puts our boxes at risk.
> I will work the geocache mailing list to raise awareness of the
> possible conflicts.
>
> WaldenRun

Hi,

My name is Eric O'Connor and I post as Choberiba on several
geocaching forums.

I started a usenet group alt.rec.geocaching

Letterboxing is on topic in that group per the charter I wrote when
submitting the control messages.

I subscribed to your list to act as an informal liaison.

I created the email address
letterboxing@cachestash.com for this purpose, but it automagically
forwards to my primary account anyway.

"samanark" wrote:

> I would think that most letterboxers use the small rubbermaid or
> tupperware containers. Aren't most geocaches larger boxes??

Geocaches can range in size from a 35mm film canister to a five
gallon bucket. Most are about one or two gallons in volume.

> (I have only seen 2 geocaches and both were huge containers
> filled with junk)
> Why would they think that such a small box is a geocache? And
> another point--Do these geocachers know how to read?? If you take a
> moment and read the logbook, you would figure out that it is a
> letterbox and not a geocache!!

Unfortunately this might have been the act of a beginner.
Some geocaches contain nothing but a paper logbook and a writing
utensil, but those are rare.

I've never peronally been to a letterbox site, so I can not comment
on how similar they are, other than what little I know about your
hobby. (Stamp+box+paper = letterbox?)


> Amanda from Seattle(who is anti-geocache)

Hey, as long as you're not anti-gun we'll get along fine.

Hi Amanda, We just saw your Nancy Drew in St.Louis today. I am sorry if
that geocache/letterbox gave you a bad taste. It is full of "junk" but not
overflowing and most geocachers have been very careful about not destroying
the area.
We visited the box because the owner is out of the area and we received
several notes that the Letterboxing stamp was missing. We replaced that
stamp and thumbed through the log book. There were quite a few logs from
combo letterboxer/geocachers or "LetterCachers". Unfortunately the last
entry before the stamp disappeared was from a letterboxer ... and just the
very day after we had visited it again with my neighbors..
I have to admit that I have had to return to a letterbox before when I
realized I had placed the wrong stamp back into my kit. Sometimes it happens.

I think both are fine sports as long as everyone is careful to respect one
another's property and individual preferences.

Happy Hunting,
Mohmers





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Geocaches are all sorts of sizes and shapes, colors, etc. Some are
themed or not, some are logbook only, and in some cases, some are
letterbox hybrids. So if a Geocacher found a container in the woods
where a geocache was marked to be, they could easily mistake it for a
geocache.

...unless it was marked otherwise.

I believe the problem is that it may have not been marked at all; making
the assumption of what it was up to the finder. All geocaches come with
a template "You found it!" note that explains what it is and its
purpose. The finder (intentionally or not) can refer back to the
Geocaching.com site and contact the cache owner, or perhaps use the
contact info provided in the container.

There seems to be an assumption that this container was found by another
Geocacher who removed the stamp. From the initial email there was a
geocacher log, but they indicated they took nothing. I'd personally give
the benefit of the doubt that it may have been found by a non-geocacher
or letterboxer, and that it was taken.

I strongly urge that anyone, Geocacher or letterboxer (or other), to
mark their container well as to what it is and its purpose. Contact
information is necessary if there is no way to contact the owner
otherwise. The Geocaching.com site requires an active email address to
post new caches so in the event that the cache needs to be removed, the
owner can be contacted. It's also good form to document these locations
in case retrieval needs to be made in the future.

Ultimately it is the owner of the geocache or letterbox who has to
decide how the container should be marked. It is their responsibility to
have the container explain what it is in order for it to remain there.

Disparaging either sport seems counterproductive, so let us distance
ourselves from that vein of discussion.

Jeremy Irish
Founder, Geocaching.com


-----Original Message-----
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Worst fears realized

I would think that most letterboxers use the small rubbermaid or
tupperware containers. Aren't most geocaches larger boxes?? (I have
only seen 2 geocaches and both were huge containers filled with junk)
Why would they think that such a small box is a geocache? And
another point--Do these geocachers know how to read?? If you take a
moment and read the logbook, you would figure out that it is a
letterbox and not a geocache!!

Amanda from Seattle(who is anti-geocache)

Jeremy,
Thanks for the discussion on this.
There is no way I want to start any sort of war here. Recent
chatter on this list has pointed out the need for the respective Web
sites to cross-mention the other sport.
Letterboxes are supposed to contain documentation about their
use. This one did but it was an old box and the sheets were somewhat
waterlogged.
I did make some assumptions. I assumed that teenage parties and
kids making forts occur less frequently with snow on the ground. I
also assumed that a fair number of people received their first GPS
for Christmas. I also thought about the fact that this box had lost
a stamp before the geocache existed. Of course it could have been
anyone that walked off with it, or dropped it in the snow and could
not find it.
I posted to your list on the chance it was a beginner geocacher.
I actually hope it was, because I think that is our best chance of
getting the stamp back! My apologies for making it appear I was
pointing a finger at your sport.
There is naturally going to be some kidding back and forth
between groups but some people will enjoy both. Who knows, maybe
someday I'll turn into an electronic homing pigeon myself...!

WaldenRun (Geoff)

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "Jeremy Irish" wrote:
> Geocaches are all sorts of sizes and shapes, colors, etc. Some are
> themed or not, some are logbook only, and in some cases, some are
> letterbox hybrids. So if a Geocacher found a container in the woods
> where a geocache was marked to be, they could easily mistake it for
a
> geocache.
>
> ...unless it was marked otherwise.
>
> I believe the problem is that it may have not been marked at all;
making
> the assumption of what it was up to the finder. All geocaches come
with
> a template "You found it!" note that explains what it is and its
> purpose. The finder (intentionally or not) can refer back to the
> Geocaching.com site and contact the cache owner, or perhaps use the
> contact info provided in the container.
>
> There seems to be an assumption that this container was found by
another
> Geocacher who removed the stamp. From the initial email there was a
> geocacher log, but they indicated they took nothing. I'd personally
give
> the benefit of the doubt that it may have been found by a non-
geocacher
> or letterboxer, and that it was taken.
>
> I strongly urge that anyone, Geocacher or letterboxer (or other), to
> mark their container well as to what it is and its purpose. Contact
> information is necessary if there is no way to contact the owner
> otherwise. The Geocaching.com site requires an active email address
to
> post new caches so in the event that the cache needs to be removed,
the
> owner can be contacted. It's also good form to document these
locations
> in case retrieval needs to be made in the future.
>
> Ultimately it is the owner of the geocache or letterbox who has to
> decide how the container should be marked. It is their
responsibility to
> have the container explain what it is in order for it to remain
there.
>
> Disparaging either sport seems counterproductive, so let us distance
> ourselves from that vein of discussion.
>
> Jeremy Irish
> Founder, Geocaching.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Worst fears realized
>
> I would think that most letterboxers use the small rubbermaid or
> tupperware containers. Aren't most geocaches larger boxes?? (I
have
> only seen 2 geocaches and both were huge containers filled with
junk)
> Why would they think that such a small box is a geocache? And
> another point--Do these geocachers know how to read?? If you take a
> moment and read the logbook, you would figure out that it is a
> letterbox and not a geocache!!
>
> Amanda from Seattle(who is anti-geocache)

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "waldenrun" wrote:
> Boxers,
> After a nice ski in to Mount Pisgah Fledglings, with light snow
> falling, I was aghast to discover the stamp had been removed.

I'm very sorry to hear that the Fledglings are missing. I am going to
retire the box. Sometime soon I'll be out there to remove the box and
will remove the clues from the website.

Thanks for letting me know it's gone.
Betsey

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "betseysen" wrote:

> I'm very sorry to hear that the Fledglings are missing. I am going to
> retire the box. Sometime soon I'll be out there to remove the box and
> will remove the clues from the website.
>
> Thanks for letting me know it's gone.
> Betsey

Betsey, I'm sorry to hear the stamp was stolen for a second time. It
was one of my favorites that you have carved. Well, if nothing else,
the fact that your stamps get taken is a tribute to how nice they are!

In the future, I may start adding a note to my boxes pleading with
people not only to rehide the box carefully but to please not steal the
stamp. It makes me sad that people actually feel they can take other
people's creative efforts. Don't they feel guilty about it???

Bonnie

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "Jeremy Irish" wrote:

> I believe the problem is that it may have not been marked at all; making
> the assumption of what it was up to the finder.

Jeremy, I do NOT think this is the problem. Practically every
letterbox I have ever found had an explanation inside, telling what a
letterbox is. I personally put about half a dozen explanatory handouts
in each box for people to take with them (although these handouts are
not often taken, because most finders of boxes get their clues on the
Web at LBNA and therefore know in advance what letterboxing is all
about).

My feeling is that people really like the stamp and simply take it.
This particular stamp (Mount Pisgah Feldgings) is very nice and has now
been stolen twice. My sister Betsey recarved it after it was stolen
the first time, after an article about letterboxing appeared in a local
newspaper.

I am beginning to have mixed feelings about the value of publicity for
letterboxing!

Bonnie

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "monotropa" wrote:
> Betsey, I'm sorry to hear the stamp was stolen for a second time.

Thanks, Bonnie. I'd like to think the Fledgings matured and moved
on. Perhaps they'll reappear in the future as adult birds!

Betsey
where there's no snow in this part of Ma. :(